BRAHMOS

recent: il est temps de voir arriver les MM40 block III!

citation:
BrahMos delivered to Navy (Santosh Patnaik)

VISAKHAPATNAM: Supersonic cruise missile BrahMos was delivered to the Navy here on Thursday.

The event was celebrated at INS Kalinga on Visakhapatnam-Bhimunipatnam beach road. A. Sivathanu Pillai, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited; Vice-Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Eastern Naval Command; Rear Admiral (retired) S. Mohapatra, in charge of BrahMos missile delivery; and V. Bhujanga Rao, Director, Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL) were among those present. A top source in BrahMos Aerospace told The Hindu that for the first time, the missile, mostly produced indigenously in Hyderabad, has several unique features.
Joint venture
The BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited is a joint venture with Russia, in which India has a 50.5 per cent equity. The company designs, produces and markets the missiles.
In the past three years, the missile had been successfully test-fired from Interim Test Range at Chandipur-on-sea in south Orissa.
The missile will be integrated with various naval warships and shore-based complexes.
The NSTL's efforts to design advance models of stealth ships received a shot in the arm with the launching of work on instrumentation radar centre atop Dolphin hills overlooking the sea here on Thursday.
The centre, being developed at a cost of Rs.10 crores on a site allotted by the Navy, will be an advanced facility for measuring the radar signature of ships by the NSTL. Ships can evade attacks during hostilities if they are undetectable by enemy radars.
The centre will help the NSTL in studying various stealth design features of ships.
The new facility, expected to be ready by May next year, will help reduce radar signature of ships by using newly-developed stealth material.
Laying the stone for the centre, Dr. Sivathanu Pillai said: "I know, a few years back, the NSTL embarked upon an integrated stealth technology programme.
As part of it, it developed a lot of stealth hardware, software and stealth materials." He said some of the stealth materials developed by the NSTL and Mumbai-based Naval Material Research Laboratory (NMRL) were inducted on first of class stealth ship INS Shivalik.

quoique à côté du Brahmos, notre MM40 Block III fait quand même pale figure

oui, 180 km de portée contre 250 je crois, mais c'est quand même mieux que le MM40 Block II de 75 km, alors que l'Inde a déjà de nombreux SS-N-25 de 130 km

oui mais le Brahmos fait près de 3 tonnes et est supersonique, c'est pas la même catégorie

un peu de technique tirée du navire qui effectue les essais du missile:

The forward P-20M missile cells (port and starboard) aboard INS Rajput have been replaced with two boxed launchers housing four PJ-10 (BrahMos) ASCMs. D51 served as the trials platform for the missile, which can be fitted with a conventional or nuclear payload of 200 kg. The missile has a range of ~300 km at 14,000 metres or 120 km at 10 to 15 metres. The missile is believed to have a first stage solid-fuelled booster and a second stage liquid-fuelled ramjet.

Euh, mais c'est quoi le MTBF d'un Brahmos??

MTBF?

un petit lien

http://www.brahmos.com/home.html

Citation :

quoique à côté du Brahmos, notre MM40 Block III fait quand même pale figure

ça n'est pas tous vrai. Le Brahmos a seulement cette porté quand il est en haut. Le MM40 est très difficile a trouver parce qu'il vole très bas. Le Brahmos peut voler très bas aussi, mais la porté devient seulement 160km... c'est encore beaucoup moins que 300km. Elle plus rapide que l'exocet, mais elle est aussi plus plus plus large et lourde. Normallement la même navire peut porter plus d'Exocets que des Brahmos... ça c'est la theorie!
Quand le Brahmos vole en haut, il est très vulnerable, le Aegis est dévéloppe contre ces missiles. Aussi le Aster ne peut pas avoir des problèmes avec ça.

Certes mais si une fregate peut survivre avec de la chance et un equipage entrainé à un Exocet, autant il ne survit pas à un Brahmos

clausewitz a écrit:

Certes mais si une fregate peut survivre avec de la chance et un equipage entrainé à un Exocet, autant il ne survit pas à un Brahmos

Vous avez raison. Brahmos produces more kinetic energy than a sub sonic cruise missile. Sheer impact will cause a lot of damage, followed by the warhead.

Neptune,

Brahmos has 290+ kms in Hi Lo Hi flight path. It has around 120 + kms range in lo lo lo combination. It is sea skimming and rises above sea level just 6 seconds before hitting the target. Even if there is a intercept, the sheer kinetic energy of fragments will impact the ship. Sub Sonic missiles have a lesser chance. However except US, no one has anti-Supersonic cruise missile capability. US has practiced against Hawk missile with Ageis, but still it is not a 100% kill.

Citation :

Brahmos fait dans les + 290kms en chemin de vol Hi Lo Hi. Il fait autour des 120kms dans les Lo Lo Lo combinaison. C'est niveau mer et se lève au-dessus juste 6 secondes avant de frapper la cible. Même s'il y a une interception, l'énergie cinétique des fragments s’effectuera sur le bateau cible. Les missiles SubSoniques ont un peu de chance. Cependant excepté les USA, personne n'a de possibilités anti-Supersoniques contre des missiles de croisière. Les USA ont pratiqués contre les missiles HAWK avec l’Aegis, mais ce n'est toujours pas une mise à mort de 100%.

traduction pour nos neophytes

Thanks chacko! pour ces details

Pas toutes vrai. L'horizon radar est environ 30km. L'exocet vient la a 2min 20secondes, le Brahmos vient là à 36secondes. Jusqu'a l'horizon radar tu peux voir tous ce qui est là, a altitude 0. Quand le Brahmos vole bas, qui est le mieux, la porté devient moins que l'MM40 bl III. La tête explosive se défragment quand le Brahmos est intervenu, elle n'explode plus après ça. Les fragment ne sont pas dirigé et peut être elles casse quelque part de coque, mais ça n'est pas important ni une problème pour le bateau.

Le US a Aegis contre des missiles supersonique, mais aussi le Japon, Espagnol, Norvège et Corrée de Sud ont les bateaux Aegis. L'Aster a aussi la capabilité d'intervenir un missile supersonique et maintenant, la France, Royaume Uni et l'Italie ont l'Aster, ça fait déja quelques pays...
Aussi la Russie a cette capabilité avec le Tor et le S300F/FM.

JollyRogers,

Thanks for the translation

Neptune,

I have already told you US "could" intercept it with Ageis.

A horizion radar cannot detect anything thats sea skimming. Please provide me the necessary proof for it.

Aster can counter supersonic CM? Is there data to support it? What missiles have they practiced against?

I will respond to you in English. A "Horizon Radar" is not what I meant, well it's French. It just means Radar Horizon (strange Frenchies). And within your radar horizon you can see anything down to the waves. By flying low, you stay longer below that radar horizon, but once you reach it (at approx 35km from your target) you're visible. Hardly so, but still visible.
Anyhow, what I mean is that you want the best chance of intercept with your missile, this means that you'd want to launch it in lo lo lo mode. This means that, when you are at 140km with Brahmos, you will wait and close in to 120km. At that moment, at 140km, the Exocet can already be launched, which will force you to fire Brahmos in Hi Lo Hi. This on its part decreases your chances of success a lot.
Aegis was developped against the Mach 2-4 attacks of the Kitchen missiles fired from Backfire bombers. Brahmos is little and lightly armed compared to those beasts. If it was developed against such, then I'm pretty sure it can intercept Brahmos with a big chance of succes. You're never sure you'll intercept it, you're not even sure you will intercept Exocet or other slow flyers with Aegis, but the chances are big nonetheless.

Citation :

By flying low, you stay longer below that radar horizon, but once you reach it (at approx 35km from your target) you're visible. Hardly so, but still visible.

This is certainly a valuable sentence. I would like to know more about it. As far as I know, its nearly impossible to detect anything sea skimming. Its difficult even with a naked eye.

Exocet is not a hit to kill anti missile system. I am not sure if Brahmos can fly through a proximity explosion (if you meant that exocete can intercept Brahmos)

I know, I'm not a drawing artist
Anyhow, the reversed triange is a ship. The big curve is the earth, the red markers are your radar beam (of which the angle is depending from the transmitter) and the black short lines are a missile.
As you can see at the long range, the low flying missile is not yet within the beam, the higher flying ones.
Once past the radar horizon the low flyer gets within the beam too and stays in the beam, no matter how low it flies. So Brahmos has the advantage that it would travel the distance from the ship to its radar horizon in a much shorter time than the Exocet but the Exocet has in this case a longer range (and is much less expensive and much smaller and lighter)
It mostly depends on how much trouble and at which ranges the ship's radar has with sea clutter. Because that's where the missile might disappear into. (mainly for short ranges from the ship in normal conditions nearly inexistent).
The eye is not as good as the radar when it comes to that as it doesn't have a physical touch with the target, it only relies on the light the target reflects into your eye. The radar has its own beam to make sure something will return. There it depends on pulse length, background scatter suppression, strength of the radar signal (gain) frequency etc.

using Exocet as an anti-Brahmos missile???? I didn't mean that. Would be funny though, I guess the chances would be nearly 0 to have a hit though.

Didn't know you were still alive Brute, how're you doing?

Neptune,

Thanks for the drawing and explanation. AN/SPQ-9B type radars can indeed detect the sea skimmers.

But again, at 35 kms away and at 3 mach, what would be the reaction time for the ship?

Neptune, you post at key pub? I left it because of SOC.

Added Later,

If I remember correctly, we discussed Krusk drowning in Key Forum, right?

I left because of Indians and Chinese.

35km gives 36seconds reaction time. Enough for most systems.

Dites les francophones ... un edit avec la version Française pour les puriste serait bine aussi hein ... aider notre ami CHACKO (qui discute en anglais pour sa facilite est bien ) mais qu'on puisse aussi discuter dans les deux langue pour nous alors

on est une bonne partie qui savont +/- traduire , mais pas tous hein

alors un QUOTE avec soit l'anglais ou le francais ... c'tes pas un luxe

J'ai déjà des problèmes avec le français, mais quand ça vient si technique comme l'opération d'un radar, j'ai vraiment beaucoup de problèmes. Je pense qu'il y a certainement une personne ici qui peux la traduire pour nous sans fautes. Quand je dois essayer ça....
Mes excuses!

Neptune a écrit:

35km gives 36seconds reaction time. Enough for most systems.

IMO at 36 seconds stopping time, there is huge chance that even the fragmented pieces (if brahmos is hit) will not reach the ship.

One more thing Neptune, Brahmos performs manouvers (evasive, some call it dance like manouvers ). The flight path is not predictable.

JollyRogers

I agree, there are translators that come with these boards. It will make life easy.

Je sais des manoeuvres evasives, c'est comme le Moskit. Les SAMs avec une tête active peut intervenir ça. Avec de l'onde continus (continuous wave) ils ont moins besoin d'une prédiction du movement du but.

En meme temps, faire des zigzags avec un engins qui vole a mach 3+...
Bonjour l'inertie.